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Full Tilt Poker Article Dump
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Topic: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump(Read 3809 times)
BOYNAMEDSUE
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Full Tilt Poker Article Dump
«
on:
September 26, 2011, 12:45:30 PM »
Dump articles pertaining to the Full Tilt Poker situation here.
Today's article (September 26) is definitely uplifting:
http://www.pokerstrategy.com/news/world-of-poker/Exclusive:-Full-Tilt-Investors-Nearing-Deal_52047/
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Topic: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump(Read 3809 times)
wachinpntdry
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Re: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump
«
Reply #1 on:
September 26, 2011, 01:16:43 PM »
^ see..... I knew my "angry letter/collection agency" type demand for payment e-mail I sent the other day would get 'em moving on this.. (was prob the part I put in about charging interest and associated collection costs if I wasn't paid in full before 180 days overdue date of Oct 12)
you're welcome all
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"....
in general, loyalty is paramount over all at Tilt
." ~Wicked Chops Entity on 8.7.2011~
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Topic: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump(Read 3809 times)
twospd
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Re: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump
«
Reply #2 on:
September 26, 2011, 01:39:55 PM »
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BOYNAMEDSUE
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Re: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump
«
Reply #3 on:
September 26, 2011, 03:12:13 PM »
I doubt the AGCC will revoke Full Tilt's license right now:
1. Full Tilt is in serious talks about finding a new owner.
2. Thousands of players' funds are at stake.
3. Full Tilt shut down after having their license suspended, they have been shut down ever since, with no hope of re-opening without new ownership. There is no need to revoke Full Tilt's license.
4. Full Tilt paid the AGCC $400k in back fees.
Still, players might want to contact the AGCC and ask that they don't revoke Full Tilt's license.
gamblingcontrol.org
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Topic: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump(Read 3809 times)
sixandfour
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Re: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump
«
Reply #4 on:
September 26, 2011, 03:17:58 PM »
Quote from: BOYNAMEDSUE on September 26, 2011, 03:12:13 PM
I doubt the AGCC will revoke Full Tilt's license right now:
1. Full Tilt is in serious talks about finding a new owner.
2. Thousands of players' funds are at stake.
3. Full Tilt shut down after having their license suspended, they have been shut down ever since, with no hope of re-opening without new ownership. There is no need to revoke Full Tilt's license.
4. Full Tilt paid the AGCC $400k in back fees.
Still, players might want to contact the AGCC and ask that they don't revoke Full Tilt's license.
gamblingcontrol.org
I would think it very unlikely they will reinstate them until such time as they can prove they will provide ample evidence that they will operate legitimately. In order for that to happen, they will have to remove all those who were involved in illegitimate business practices. If the prospective investors plan to satisfy those demands, they may have hope of avoiding permanent revocation. But reinstatement is another thing altogether.
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Topic: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump(Read 3809 times)
twospd
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Re: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump
«
Reply #5 on:
September 26, 2011, 03:34:49 PM »
In the best interest of the players, I do not see how/why they would revoke as long as there are "serious" negotiations going on.
On the flip side
If the commission is to be taken seriously/trusted they almost have to revoke.
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Topic: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump(Read 3809 times)
TheDarkElf
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Re: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump
«
Reply #6 on:
September 27, 2011, 02:07:30 PM »
Quote from: twospd on September 26, 2011, 03:34:49 PM
In the best interest of the players, I do not see how/why they would revoke as long as there are "serious" negotiations going on.
On the flip side
If the commission is to be taken seriously/trusted they almost have to revoke.
Personally, I'm hoping for a recommendation to the law enforcement agencies in Alderney.
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Topic: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump(Read 3809 times)
twospd
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Re: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump
«
Reply #7 on:
September 27, 2011, 03:14:23 PM »
«
Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 03:24:41 PM by twospd
»
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wachinpntdry
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Re: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump
«
Reply #8 on:
September 27, 2011, 04:17:24 PM »
Quote from: twospd on September 27, 2011, 03:14:23 PM
^ Howard Hussein in the "spider hole" .....all kinds of funny
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in general, loyalty is paramount over all at Tilt
." ~Wicked Chops Entity on 8.7.2011~
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Topic: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump(Read 3809 times)
twospd
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Re: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump
«
Reply #9 on:
September 27, 2011, 06:01:37 PM »
How did I miss this one.
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horseplyr
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Re: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump
«
Reply #10 on:
September 28, 2011, 11:13:13 AM »
I just have one question.
WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO GET THE OVER 400 MILLION DOLLARS THAT PLAYERS ARE OWED.
How can anyone take this bid seriously, with such a huge debt.
yes someone may purchase Full Tilt, but in no way is this going to help anyone who is owed money by them.
Can someone please wake boynamedsue up.
Been wrong every time, and this undying devotion to them is just so misplaced.
Listen they screwed every person who was on site, wake up sir, seriously.
Why would anyone want them back in business.
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hghlndr6
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Re: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump
«
Reply #11 on:
September 28, 2011, 11:20:13 AM »
That's four questions.
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TheDarkElf
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Re: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump
«
Reply #12 on:
September 28, 2011, 11:52:39 AM »
Quote from: horseplyr on September 28, 2011, 11:13:13 AM
I just have one question.
WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO GET THE OVER 400 MILLION DOLLARS THAT PLAYERS ARE OWED.
How can anyone take this bid seriously, with such a huge debt.
yes someone may purchase Full Tilt, but in no way is this going to help anyone who is owed money by them.
Can someone please wake boynamedsue up.
Been wrong every time, and this undying devotion to them is just so misplaced.
Listen they screwed every person who was on site, wake up sir, seriously.
Why would anyone want them back in business.
I think the debt to players is down to about $300M, but I agree that is still too much to lay out for starters.
(What follows is my personal view - I have no inside knowledge - it is just an educated guess.)
Hence, there has to be a modification. A new owner has to be able to pay out every ROW player who wants to cash out - otherwise, the ROW players aren't gonna play. But they don't have to pay out the US players, at least
immediately
, since they can't play no matter what. Now laying out $150M with a "promise" to pay out the US sooner or later, might make the deal work for the new owner.
Of course the d-bags at FTP would jump at any deal.
Obviously AGCC doesn't want to hear this, but since the only other alternative is for FTP to go bankrupt, they have to at least give it a listen. They have to try to convince everyone that the US players will get paid by such and such date (which doesn't mean we will get paid - it's just for show).
Not sure what the DOJ is gonna do. There might even be a connection here to the DOJ's latest action. If you believe my earlier speculation, I have two theories, but enough speculation for one day.
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Topic: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump(Read 3809 times)
BOYNAMEDSUE
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Re: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump
«
Reply #13 on:
September 28, 2011, 11:59:03 AM »
I'm only going by articles I've read online, and from what I've read it appears the investor looking at buying the company is interested in the whole shebang, not just the software.
My loyalty for the old Full Tilt Poker died when I found out they only had 60 million in their bank accounts when they were seized. I was under the impression, and most people were also, that they had the money, and that the DoJ was keeping FTP from paying back players, by not unfreezing their accounts. It was only last week we all learned FTP had squandered away our money. And even though I think guys like Chris Ferguson and Howard Lederer knew far less about the finances of the company than people think they did, I would not play there again with the old owners still in charge. However, I see no reason to punish the new owners for the mistakes of the previous owners. You can bet the new owners will do things right. Player balances will definitely be segregated. If this deal does get done, and players are paid back, I will view the new owners as heroes. I think many other will as well, eventually.
Whether this deal happens or not, we shall see. Just trying to be optimistic. It has noting to do with loyalty.
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horseplyr
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Re: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump
«
Reply #14 on:
September 28, 2011, 12:01:30 PM »
I have read that the doj has no obligation to pay out funds, from which they have seized.
Who knows how much that is, but if they do seize about 300 mil or so, and keep it, not sure how that would play out either.
Also if they decide to pay back using seized money, how do they determine how much, and how does this affect non us countries.
How do the class actions suits work, if the DOJ seizes the accounts. Do the lawsuits have access this money?
I have no frekin idea.
But anyone who is still supporting full tilt, needs to run really hard into a wall head first.
jus saying.
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TheDarkElf
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Re: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump
«
Reply #15 on:
September 28, 2011, 12:22:00 PM »
Quote from: BOYNAMEDSUE on September 28, 2011, 11:59:03 AM
...
It was only last week we all learned FTP had squandered away our money.
...
You can bet the new owners will do things right.
...
(1) I figured it out long before last week.
(2) Where can I book that bet?
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Gypsydc
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Re: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump
«
Reply #16 on:
September 28, 2011, 12:31:53 PM »
I'm of the opinion this will go through, namely because of the money that is at stake for those who have significant amounts tied up in FTP. There is no reason to hurt those players who legitimately are owed money. As for Chris and Howard..I'm with BNS in that I don't think they knew the intricate details of the finances. They were figureheads for the most part and although I don't give them complete innocence I wouldn't chastise them without knowing the details. For all we know they're giving up some of their own money to repay players, especially considering how much this thing has blown up and is exposed. It's the right thing to do and I think most of us feel best when we know we are doing the right thing, them included.
On a funny note...playing on Minted last night and a guy's s-name is: ftphasmyroll
If FTP does come back, call me a sucker, but I will support them again. I can't see them coming back anything but strong. If they expect to regain trust they'll have to offer up live, 24 hour support, some great rakeback deals, promotions, etc.
I guess time will tell.
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TheDarkElf
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Re: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump
«
Reply #17 on:
September 28, 2011, 12:34:37 PM »
Quote from: horseplyr on September 28, 2011, 12:01:30 PM
I have read that the doj has no obligation to pay out funds, from which they have seized.
Who knows how much that is, but if they do seize about 300 mil or so, and keep it, not sure how that would play out either.
Also if they decide to pay back using seized money, how do they determine how much, and how does this affect non us countries.
How do the class actions suits work, if the DOJ seizes the accounts. Do the lawsuits have access this money?
I have no frekin idea.
But anyone who is still supporting full tilt, needs to run really hard into a wall head first.
jus saying.
Don't think anyone is realistically expecting the DOJ to surrender a single penny to the players, although by amending the civil complaint, they have essentially labeled us as "victims", so we might be able to get something someday.
Other than that, the only way anyone is getting paid is if they dump the thing.
Part of the sale deal is a settlement of the DOJ civil complaint (probably something along the lines of DOJ keeps everything they got, no more, no less). Doubt if the criminal case goes away (my gut feeling). Doubt if the other lawsuit(s) go away either (although a DOJ settlement on their civil complaint might effect the other lawsuits in some fashion).
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TheDarkElf
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Re: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump
«
Reply #18 on:
September 28, 2011, 12:54:42 PM »
Quote from: Gypsydc on September 28, 2011, 12:31:53 PM
I'm of the opinion this will go through, namely because of the money that is at stake for those who have significant amounts tied up in FTP. There is no reason to hurt those players who legitimately are owed money. As for Chris and Howard..I'm with BNS in that I don't think they knew the intricate details of the finances. They were figureheads for the most part and although I don't give them complete innocence I wouldn't chastise them without knowing the details. For all we know they're giving up some of their own money to repay players, especially considering how much this thing has blown up and is exposed. It's the right thing to do and I think most of us feel best when we know we are doing the right thing, them included.
On a funny note...playing on Minted last night and a guy's s-name is: ftphasmyroll
If FTP does come back, call me a sucker, but I will support them again. I can't see them coming back anything but strong. If they expect to regain trust they'll have to offer up live, 24 hour support, some great rakeback deals, promotions, etc.
I guess time will tell.
Everyone is looking out for their own interests; no one is really concerned with those "who have
any
amounts tied up in FTP", significant or otherwise.
Chris and Howard are board members. They have certain legal obligations to make it their business to know what is going on. (Of course we all know it was the FTP forum mods who had all the real power and money - but we can keep that secret.
As far as I'm concerned, Chris and Howard can't give back "their" money, because it was never theirs to begin with.
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horseplyr
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Re: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump
«
Reply #19 on:
September 28, 2011, 03:14:39 PM »
Quote from: TheDarkElf on September 28, 2011, 12:22:00 PM
Quote from: BOYNAMEDSUE on September 28, 2011, 11:59:03 AM
...
It was only last week we all learned FTP had squandered away our money.
...
You can bet the new owners will do things right.
...
(1) I figured it out long before last week.
(2) Where can I book that bet?
my gosh + 1gazillion percent on this.
I think almost everyone knew before last week, LIKE A FEW MONTHS AGO THAT FULL TILT SQUANDERD ALL OF OUR MONEY AWAY. It would of been horrible business to not pay back the US alone, if they could have covered that, and then think of some other stall method for non US customers.
And I wouldnt trust the new investors at all. Im sure they would be doing this for their self interests as well. I would like also a place where I can book this bet.
Im beginning to wonder with some comments here if the mods on FT were in fact paid, cause I simply do not understand this devotion.
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sixandfour
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Re: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump
«
Reply #20 on:
September 28, 2011, 03:26:41 PM »
If they were paid, wouldn't you think their devotion would have left when their paychecks did? If you lost your job, would you go around extolling your former employers' virtues to anyone who would listen?
The guy lived and breathed FTP for years and years... a lot of them did. And of course, there's a financial investment. Naturally, they want things to go back to the way they were; that explains the devotion far more readily than old check stubs. The only thing BNS is guilty of is overoptimism.
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TheDarkElf
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Re: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump
«
Reply #21 on:
September 28, 2011, 03:35:10 PM »
Meh. Bitar, Lederer, Ferguson, all muppets. The mods pulled the strings. DOJ vs Boobs Tho ... can't wait.
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sixandfour
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Re: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump
«
Reply #22 on:
September 28, 2011, 04:01:27 PM »
Quote from: TheDarkElf on September 28, 2011, 03:35:10 PM
Meh. Bitar, Lederer, Ferguson, all muppets. The mods pulled the strings. DOJ vs Boobs Tho ... can't wait.
Now BP is a whole different story. She up and disappeared at just about the right time to be holed up in the Pocket Kings bunker with Howie and Jesus.
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Re: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump
«
Reply #23 on:
September 28, 2011, 04:13:22 PM »
OP, what's wrong with the UsedByMostPeople thread here?
http://www.sixandfourum.com/poker-news/has-full-tilt-pulled-the-plug/
Seems like ^ that ^ has been the place most of us have used as a "dumping ground" related to FTP news. Since pretty much the beginning of the "FTP Forumers seeking refuge" scenario.
And kinda ironic that this thread has mostly speculation and opinion sharing, and very little news article linking.
«
Last Edit: September 28, 2011, 04:17:06 PM by DforDissent
»
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Re: Full Tilt Poker Article Dump
«
Reply #24 on:
September 30, 2011, 05:57:37 AM »
from wicked chops poker :
The Alderney Gambling Control Commission (AGCC) may have hammered the final (third or fourth) nail in Full Tilt Poker‘s coffin on Thursday when it revoked the beleaguered company’s gaming license.
While the AGCC’s statement made it clear that Tilt’s license could be “reactivated” if a new buyer is found (and presumably current management is cleared out), this revocation certainly doesn’t help the company finalize any potential investor deal–or get it any closer to generating much needed revenue again.
While Tilt lashed back at the AGCC for potentially putting their latest investor deal at risk, at the end of the day, Tilt management’s actions over the past year is the real cause for the predicament they’re in, and is the real reason why the license was revoked.
Knowing what they know now, there’s no chance the AGCC could allow Tilt to operate until the company comes up with the $300-350M it owes players across the globe. The AGCC would lose all credibility.
So as Tilt is dealt yet another blow–it’s time to ask again: so now what?
Here are the only two options left, as we see it…
Option 1 – All-In On Viva La France: As we’ve previously outlined, to straighten out the books, Tilt needs about $750-800M. That pays back customers, takes care of the DoJ fines, and provides some needed operating capital.
Now–the alleged French investment group allegedly including Laurent Tapie had to know Thursday’s license revocation was a possibility. And if they knew this was a possibility, we don’t see any reason why AGCC swiping Tilt’s license suddenly prohibits them from doing a deal. They still need the same amount of money to do the deal. The brand is still just as toxic. The company still isn’t generating any income.
So long as the AGCC has committed to the French investment group that Tilt’s license will be reactivated once 1) they buy the company, 2) they clear out management, and 3) they pay back all of the players / all funds will be secure, then that deal goes through just it would’ve before the license revocation.
As long as the DoJ blesses the deal too, which isn’t a given.
We still feel like this deal happening is a major dog, but what happened today doesn’t move it from a two-to-a-one outer.
Option 2 – Bankruptcy, Liquidation, and Pennies on the Dollar: If the French investors end up walking from Tilt, we don’t see (or have heard from any of our sources) any other credible alternatives. It’s not like Tilt had a line of potential suitors waiting at the door before their license was yanked. They definitely won’t have one now.
At this point, Tilt’s best option (and the one we believe is most likely) would be bankruptcy and asset liquidation.
The assets, of course, are the software/platform, and to some degree, the customer list.
However, that customer list isn’t *much* of an asset at this point. They’re owed over $300M. So consider that a “toxic” asset. If you assume the customer list, you’re probably going to have to assume their debt too.
Which leaves us the platform.
All of the industry software experts we’ve spoken to agree the Tilt platform is worth around $100-150M. If they get a buyer on the hook for that money, the cash would likely be divvied up for pennies on the dollar to creditors (players, DoJ to a degree, etc.).
For Tilt and its management, this is obviously a worst case scenario.
The brand and company dies. The DoJ will go more aggressively after all shareholders and their assets in an attempt to secure its penalty payments. The net widens. More shoot hits the fan. And the whole industry suffers an elongated, dragged out, painful process.
It’s not what we’re hoping for…but it is what we expect.
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