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 2nl overpair in 3b pot, multiway



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Topic: 2nl overpair in 3b pot, multiway  (Read 281 times) More Search
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Author Topic: 2nl overpair in 3b pot, multiway(Read 281 times)
« on: November 30, 2011, 12:12:17 PM »

Villain was 68/32 with a 1/8 3bet through 40 hands. His one 3bet was 3bet/calling A9o pf vs my AQ.

Such a sticky spot, and I didn't really know what to do throughout the hand. I thought about 3betting, but UTG was a complete unknown and had just posted his blind in UTG. Obviously, after just flatting the pfr from unknown, we have to flat villain's 3bet being this deep and multiway. The flop is decent for us, but I'm not sure what we do. Huh??


Everleaf - €0.02 NL - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

SB: €0.80
BB: €1.00
UTG: €2.00
Hero (MP): €3.12
CO: €3.01
BTN: €1.15

SB posts SB €0.01, BB posts BB €0.02, UTG posts DB €0.02

Pre Flop: (€0.05) Hero has 8

UTG raises to €0.04, Hero calls €0.04, CO raises to €0.19, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls €0.15, Hero calls €0.15

Flop: (€0.60, 3 players) 6 3 6
UTG checks, Hero checks, CO bets €0.60, fold, fold

CO wins €0.57
« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 12:41:27 PM by ohsnapzbrah, Reason: Suits » Logged

Author Topic: 2nl overpair in 3b pot, multiway(Read 281 times)
profilFletch_smf
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« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2011, 06:57:06 PM »

What's his C Bet %? With the A9 was it an All in Call or was there flop play?

If you're not willing to continue on that flop then calling the 3Bet preflop is a mistake. He's obviously pretty loose pre, and if he has a high C Bet then check raising all in on that flop is the play.
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Author Topic: 2nl overpair in 3b pot, multiway(Read 281 times)
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2011, 11:03:26 AM »

What's his C Bet %? With the A9 was it an All in Call or was there flop play?

If you're not willing to continue on that flop then calling the 3Bet preflop is a mistake. He's obviously pretty loose pre, and if he has a high C Bet then check raising all in on that flop is the play.
Here's the AQ/A9 hand. Nothing out of the ordinary.


Everleaf - €0.02 NL - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

SB: €0.79
BB: €0.91
Hero (UTG): €2.35
BTN: €0.80

SB posts SB €0.01, BB posts BB €0.02

Pre Flop: (€0.03) Hero has  A Q

Hero raises to €0.07, BTN raises to €0.24, fold, fold, Hero raises to €0.81, BTN calls €0.56

Flop: (€1.63, 2 players)  3 T Q

Turn: (€1.63, 2 players)  6

River: (€1.63, 2 players)  T

Hero shows  A Q  (Two Pair, Queens and Tens) (PreFlop 75%, Flop 97%, Turn 100%)
BTN shows  9 A  (One Pair, Tens) (PreFlop 25%, Flop 3%, Turn 0%)
Hero wins €1.54

His cbet was only 2/2 and I only have 31 hands on him at the time. His total AF at the time was 1.1 as well. I guess I really should be crai on a flop like that, but IDK. I just couldn't do it with him betting into two people and being effectively 150bb deep. Is that line of thinking a mistake?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2011, 03:01:44 PM by Fletch_smf » Logged
Author Topic: 2nl overpair in 3b pot, multiway(Read 281 times)
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« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2011, 10:29:12 PM »

Wow this is sooooo basic and I do not mean to derail this but may I ask what is meant by 3bet?

The way I am counting this is...
PF there is  .09cents(4.5bb) in the pot when it gets to Snap and Snap must call .04cents which makes the pot .13cents(6.5bb) then CO raises .19cents(9.5bb) effectively coming over the top 3bb and making the pot.32cents(16bb)   Now UTG flats the raise bringing the pot to .47cents(23.5bb)    To make this call Snap is paying an additional .15cents but getting 3:1 (please read my 2nd question also) and ending the action going to the flop with a pot of .62cents(31bb)...this is not the 2nd question but why does the HH at this point show a .60cent pot?Rake?  

Where does the calling the 3bet PF come in?

I was under the impression that when using the term 3bet 4bet etc that it was say 3xbb which at this stake is .06cents = 3bet  


How should this read?   Should it be 2:1 or 3:1 as I have it?   Is it correct to write a ratio of lets use example of 5:1    5:1 would also be written as 1 in 6 or the way I keep up with it is I treat the   ( : ) symbol or (to) as a plus sign and add the two #'s  so 5+1= 6  and would be written as 1:6  or  1 in 6  and then to go the other way I just reverse it or treat the "in" as a minus sign    I am confusing myself here...Back to the hand, If  .15 has to be called into a .45 pot then we are getting 3x's our $ is why I wrote it 3:1...but again I thought it was done the way I just described so that would make what I wrote 1 in 4 and that is not correct...is it?   EDIT yea that is right because we have put in 1/4th of the $    I could delete this but who knows someone else may benefit...if this is correct,LOL


Math is hard and I suppose I have derailed this...sry...I have been wanting to ask this a long time.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2011, 11:02:18 PM by twospd » Logged
Author Topic: 2nl overpair in 3b pot, multiway(Read 281 times)
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2011, 11:11:05 PM »

Ok, here is the official terminology.

3bet is just the third bet. Preflop, there is already a bet of 1bb by the big blind. That is technically the first bet, or 1bet. Any bet (not call) after this is known as a raise preflop. Technically, it would be the second bet, or 2bet. Any bet after this and sequentially would be 3bet, 4bet, etc.

After the flop, the person who makes the first bet will have made the first bet, or 1bet. If there is a raise of this bet, it will be known as a 2bet, 3bet, etc.

So in the action in my hand, UTG posted a blind (big blind also posted a blind). That was the 1st bet.
UTG then raised on top of his blind, making the 2bet. I called his 2bet.
CO then raises UTG's 2bet, making his raise the 3rd bet, or 3bet.

The pot preflop, before the cards are dealt, is not $.09. It is only $.05 with the SB, BB, and UTG's posted big blind. He raised to $.04 and I called. At this point, the pot becomes $.11. CO calls the $.04, making the pot $.15, then throws in a pot size raise, which adds an additional $.15. Both blinds fold and it now costs UTG $.15 to stay in the pot. At this point, the pot is $.30. UTG calls the additional $.15 and now the pot is $.45 to me. The pot is $.45 and I have to call $.15 to stay in. If we take the highest common multiple and divide into each other, we get 3 to 1, or 3:1. Writing it as 2:1 or 4:1 is not the same, because if we multiply the highest common multiple (we have the same pot and to call numbers) then we would get $.30 to $.15 and $.60 to $.15.

I decide to call at this point and that makes the pot $.60 OTF.
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« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2011, 06:44:49 PM »

Yea, I think when I come up with the pot being .62cent  PF, but the HH shows it being .60, is because rake has already been deducted.

I was confusing myself but it is true when I said you were getting 3:1 on your PF call.
After your call your part of the pot is 1 in 4 or 1:4

The $ is no longer yours but this is an important aspect of playing NL I believe...but have not even began to ty and work out.
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Author Topic: 2nl overpair in 3b pot, multiway(Read 281 times)
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2011, 06:13:54 PM »

This always helps me put it into a little more perspective only because it can be challenging to take pennies seriously (even though you are...and you should):

SB: €800
BB: €1,000
UTG: €2,000
Hero (MP): €3,120
CO: €3,001
BTN: €1,150

SB posts SB €10, BB posts BB €20, UTG posts DB €20

Pre Flop: (€50) Hero has 8  8 

UTG raises to €40, Hero calls €40, CO raises to €190, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls €150, Hero calls €150

Flop: (€600, 3 players) 6  3  6 
UTG checks, Hero checks, CO bets €600, fold, fold

CO wins €570

With what you know I'm folding to the 3bet pre. Mid pp's (I know can be mine and plenty of other players) biggest leak. Set-mining is beautiful if you're only paying 2x or so and have more information on your opponent but now, unless you hit, you're making it incredibly tough (as you did) to play this post-flop.  The funny mind games we play with ourselves is that this flop scenario is likely what your brain skimmed over as being a flop you were going to get a lot more aggressive with...unless you really put him on a big pp pre in which case back to my first sentence. For the most part I'm agreeing with Fletch here but figured I'd put it into a financial scale that although doesn't matter because we're still looking at the same percentages, sometimes seems to make it easier to wrap your mind around.

FWIW (and where I may disagree with Fletch) is that maybe you realized your pf call mistake and knew better than to continue to dump more money into the situation...hence the fold otf and I'm okay with that.
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Author Topic: 2nl overpair in 3b pot, multiway(Read 281 times)
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« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2011, 12:58:49 AM »

FWIW (and where I may disagree with Fletch) is that maybe you realized your pf call mistake and knew better than to continue to dump more money into the situation...hence the fold otf and I'm okay with that.

We don't disagree there, Gyps. Certainly nothing wrong with realising a mistake and you don't want to compound it by continuing with it. I was just pointing out that if you're not happy to continue here, than calling pre was wrong. Clarifying that calling just to continue those few times you flop a set is the incorrect play.
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