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Ring Game Strategy
Comparing 2 online sites to live paly
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Topic: Comparing 2 online sites to live paly(Read 1383 times)
twospd
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Comparing 2 online sites to live paly
«
on:
December 12, 2011, 07:59:11 PM »
Don't really know where to post this.
The two networks I play are Carbon and Everleaf and I was wondering which of these two sites most closely resembles NL live play. I understand this is a very "general" question.
It has been since atleast 2007 since I played any live poker and even then when I played it was like 90% LHE.
The reason I ask is ,imo, Everleaf is tough...really tough. At Everleaf ,again imo,you are just as likley to be up against a group1 or 2 hand as you are med to small PP's or anything in between. Well y'all know how it is there.
At Carbon, since they opened back up to U.S. players,well it has become a bonafide nit fest/blind stealing type of place.
BORING
If you can find a table running at >19% you are lucky and will have to get in line to play it.
I am just curious and I suppose the answer will be "Somewhere in between" but I thought someone might be able to give some insight into it.
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Topic: Comparing 2 online sites to live paly(Read 1383 times)
Slickity
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Re: Comparing 2 online sites to live paly
«
Reply #1 on:
December 16, 2011, 09:17:44 PM »
are these group 1 and group 2 hands from the sklansky LHE model from way back in the day? Honestly, those don't have as much baring now as the game has changed a ton since then. Honestly, though, I've been out of the online game a while but I would say that NOTHING online compares to playing live. It's a completely different game. As far as skill level goes, I'd say it's WAY WAY WAY easier to play live at the equivalent stakes online. And that will probably never change. 1/2 NLHE live will always be profitable to an aware player. 10/20+ NLHE will always be way tough live.... any LHE below 30/60 is generally not "that" difficult. fairly straight forward play with minor adjustments to each player can carry you a long way.
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Topic: Comparing 2 online sites to live paly(Read 1383 times)
twospd
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Re: Comparing 2 online sites to live paly
«
Reply #2 on:
December 16, 2011, 09:25:20 PM »
Quote from: Slickity on December 16, 2011, 09:17:44 PM
are these group 1 and group 2 hands from the sklansky LHE model from way back in the day? Honestly, those don't have as much baring now as the game has changed a ton since then.
Yea, those are the ones.
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Topic: Comparing 2 online sites to live paly(Read 1383 times)
twospd
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Re: Comparing 2 online sites to live paly
«
Reply #3 on:
December 18, 2011, 07:56:44 AM »
When ppl / articles speak of the game evolving what is meant by this? Is there a easy answer to this?
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Topic: Comparing 2 online sites to live paly(Read 1383 times)
Fletch_smf
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Re: Comparing 2 online sites to live paly
«
Reply #4 on:
December 18, 2011, 05:03:55 PM »
^^ Opponents have changed. You need to play differently to maximise profit. Game evolves.
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Topic: Comparing 2 online sites to live paly(Read 1383 times)
twospd
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Re: Comparing 2 online sites to live paly
«
Reply #5 on:
December 18, 2011, 06:53:00 PM »
Quote from: Fletch_smf on December 18, 2011, 05:03:55 PM
^^ Opponents have changed. You need to play differently to maximise profit. Game evolves.
But how have opponents changed? There have always been ATC players,rocks,super agg,weak-tight etc.etc. Sounds like some more 2+2 bs to keep folks buying books. Every table is different, always has been always will be. Adjusting or figuring out each players tendencies is the same today as it was in 1950.
So a person needs to play AA diff today than they did last year?
Game evolves? There are still 52 cards in the deck and the #'s for outs,pot odds, implied odds etc.etc. ,haven't changed as far as I know.
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Topic: Comparing 2 online sites to live paly(Read 1383 times)
Blair5414
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Re: Comparing 2 online sites to live paly
«
Reply #6 on:
December 19, 2011, 02:41:34 PM »
Quote from: twospd on December 18, 2011, 06:53:00 PM
Game evolves? There are still 52 cards in the deck and the #'s for outs,pot odds, implied odds etc.etc. ,haven't changed as far as I know.
For one thing, the games are generally a lot tougher than they were 10 years ago. There are fewer blatant fish (if any) per table. You may end up sitting with a number of winning players capable of 3 betting 98s pre (whereas you seldom saw this play with any regularity back in the day) and playing post flop poker with relatively balanced lines.
To say that the rules of the game and the deck used to play it hasn't changed would be correct. Saying that NL games today are generally more aggressive and employ a more mathematical approach would also be correct. In poker, your play is dictated by your opponents, so as their play evolves so too must your own.
As someone with a lot of experience playing live poker, I'd agree that it's quite a different beast than playing on pretty much any online network out there. The dynamic of a live table can vary greatly, but generally a lot of live players call pretty light and raise super tight. If you live in the U.S. you might find a number of online grinders populating the live tables and they'll likely be employing their online game. If you happen to end up with a table full a gambloorz who can't resist playing their favourite trash hands (this is increasingly uncommon but still quite possible heh) you're in for quite a ride. In short, it's hard to predict exactly what you can expect as live play still draws a wide variety of players ranging from megafish to professionals.
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Topic: Comparing 2 online sites to live paly(Read 1383 times)
twospd
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Re: Comparing 2 online sites to live paly
«
Reply #7 on:
December 19, 2011, 05:10:53 PM »
^^^ Very well said. Thank you.
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Topic: Comparing 2 online sites to live paly(Read 1383 times)
DforDissent
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Re: Comparing 2 online sites to live paly
«
Reply #8 on:
December 20, 2011, 09:54:13 AM »
NL200 live play can really vary depending on the people at the table. There's a half-dozen poker rooms in my area, 3 of which run 1/2 all the time. One of them seems to have a ton of nits (who might not even raise AKs or *QQ* preflop!) but often there is this one juicy table where it's double-straddled every hand, often having 5 people call a raise to $40 preflop -- in that case you want to play Group1/Group2 and maybe set-mine any pair if you're deep enough to justify it. TPGK is the nuts at this room, you can often over-shove for value on the turn and they will call with FDs and even SDs on a paired board (!)
But the other poker room is a bit less insane, a mix of solid TAGs and calling stations and the occasional LAG who raises if nobody else does, but it's more like $15-$20 to see a flop and often it's limped all around. Sometimes at those tables you make a lot more profit by being the "raises way more often than the rest of you" apparent-maniac, because you will get paid off when you hit 2pair+.
So... watch the action at the live rooms you are considering visiting, it's just like a tournament table, you've gotta adjust to how the table is playing when you sit down. But you can't go wrong limiting yourself to "Top 10%" hands and only opening up from BTN/CO with low pairs and suited connectors/1gappers/aces, stay outta trouble until you discover the table is a rock garden then it's time you put on your Maniac Hat. imo.
TL;DR
Quote from: Slickity on December 16, 2011, 09:17:44 PM
WAY easier to play live at the equivalent stakes online. And that will probably never change. 1/2 NLHE live will always be profitable to an aware player. ... fairly straight forward play with minor adjustments to each player can carry you a long way.
^ this.
«
Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 09:56:00 AM by DforDissent
»
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Topic: Comparing 2 online sites to live paly(Read 1383 times)
DforDissent
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Re: Comparing 2 online sites to live paly
«
Reply #9 on:
December 20, 2011, 10:08:23 AM »
Quote from: twospd on December 18, 2011, 06:53:00 PM
Every table is different, always has been always will be. Adjusting or figuring out each players tendencies is the same today as it was in 1950.
The difference is that today there's a lot more knowledge in a lot higher % of players. You can't stereotype based on race or age or gender or clothing anymore.
Quote from: twospd on December 18, 2011, 06:53:00 PM
So a person needs to play AA diff today than they did last year?
And yes, correct, you can't play AA the same way as you used to in the past, the chance of getting it all in preflop is slim-to-none, unless your opponent is short-stacked. People are really willing to play flops nowadays, some of them cuz they are "hit to win" gamblers, others are the type who check-call check-raise the turn really often in order to steal big pots and get action on their actual monsters.
And also nowadays most NL200 tables will have at least 3 or 4 stacks over $500 when you sit down -- and it sometimes takes a while to figure out if they are LAGtard gamblers who have reloaded once or twice and finally got lucky, or if they are nits who got paid off by TPNK a couple of times.
Your AA might get no action if you've been tight and are unlucky enough to wake up with it UTG and raise to a "get only 1 or 2 callers" size, but if you raise too small you'll get 6 callers "looking to hit the flop" and you'll be completely guessing where you're at until the showdown. But sometimes there's that "will raise if nobody else does" moron in LP so *shudder* limping with AA might be optimal in that scenario.
TL;DR
Sure in the past you also had to adjust to the table, but today it ain't as easy as it used to be, it takes more work to adjust because there's less chance you're up against 9 drunk knuckle-dragging recreational droolers just begging to donate to your kids' college fund.
«
Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 10:11:17 AM by DforDissent
»
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"Don't judge the world from its people. Don't judge my hands from my gloves" - @GarryShandling
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Topic: Comparing 2 online sites to live paly(Read 1383 times)
twospd
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Re: Comparing 2 online sites to live paly
«
Reply #10 on:
December 21, 2011, 10:09:36 PM »
^^^ Also very well said. Thank You
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