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Topic: $2.20 MTT - Second set + 4-flush draw facing turn bet from blinds  (Read 783 times) More Search
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Author Topic: $2.20 MTT - Second set + 4-flush draw facing turn bet from blinds(Read 783 times)
« on: January 31, 2011, 06:17:04 PM »

No reads.  Any spots for a value shove here or is this just a flat as played?

Poker Stars $2.00+$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t100/t200 Blinds + t25 - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

BTN: t6055       M = 13.46
SB: t13170       M = 29.27
BB: t19540       M = 43.42
UTG: t7720       M = 17.16
Hero (MP): t10250       M = 22.78
CO: t7420       M = 16.49

Pre Flop: (t450) Hero is MP with 9 9
1 fold, Hero raises to t600, CO calls t600, 1 fold, SB calls t500, 1 fold

Flop: (t2150) 6 7 K (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO checks

Turn: (t2150) 9 (3 players)
SB bets t2000
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Author Topic: $2.20 MTT - Second set + 4-flush draw facing turn bet from blinds(Read 783 times)
profilsixandfour
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« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2011, 07:24:52 PM »

I see no reason not to shove... either they hit enough to call or they didn't.  I wouldn't think you miss out on a river bluff that often at these stacks given the action (at least not as often as you get called by Kx or a pair/pair plus draw, etc.), and they're not likely paying off with a worse flush if it comes.
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Author Topic: $2.20 MTT - Second set + 4-flush draw facing turn bet from blinds(Read 783 times)
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2011, 08:54:16 PM »

I think your reasoning for not flatting is pretty strange.  I should be shoving any flush in my range on this turn, and the point of flatting turn would be:

- to either induce value bets or value bet into a blank river against worse made hands like two pair (NOTE: unlikely scenario even now)
- to keep the pot size in control against a very strong bet
- because we feel this is polarized, and that we beat virtually no legit hands in villain's hypothetical range yet are very live against them
- I'm 50bb's deep to start the hand and only end up investing 1/4 of my stack by calling this turn, so I can afford to let the better 4-flush get there if I'm up against semi-bluffs in preparation for the times that I get it in against the nuts

My reasons for shoving, I think, are:

- potential fold equity against smaller flushes -- and, honestly, if you're bluffing out a baby flush at any point in this hand, it's on the turn
- our equity against a hand like 42 of clubs is good anyways (7 clubs + 10 outs for board to pair)
- the likelihood that we are up against a hand like 42 of clubs is about as likely as it's going to get, as we are facing a bet from a preflop caller sitting in the blinds
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Author Topic: $2.20 MTT - Second set + 4-flush draw facing turn bet from blinds(Read 783 times)
profilsixandfour
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« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2011, 10:03:53 PM »

I think your reasoning for not flatting is pretty strange.  I should be shoving any flush in my range on this turn, and the point of flatting turn would be:

- to either induce value bets or value bet into a blank river against worse made hands like two pair (NOTE: unlikely scenario even now)
- to keep the pot size in control against a very strong bet
- because we feel this is polarized, and that we beat virtually no legit hands in villain's hypothetical range yet are very live against them
- I'm 50bb's deep to start the hand and only end up investing 1/4 of my stack by calling this turn, so I can afford to let the better 4-flush get there if I'm up against semi-bluffs in preparation for the times that I get it in against the nuts

My reasons for shoving, I think, are:

- potential fold equity against smaller flushes -- and, honestly, if you're bluffing out a baby flush at any point in this hand, it's on the turn
- our equity against a hand like 42 of clubs is good anyways (7 clubs + 10 outs for board to pair)
- the likelihood that we are up against a hand like 42 of clubs is about as likely as it's going to get, as we are facing a bet from a preflop caller sitting in the blinds

K, I'm confused.

I for some reason thought blinds were 1000/2000 and villain minbet turn.  So pretty much scratch all of that.
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Author Topic: $2.20 MTT - Second set + 4-flush draw facing turn bet from blinds(Read 783 times)
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« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2011, 09:20:41 PM »

That's a huge over bet- 2000 into 2150 pot. Either SB is a  loose donkey calling the raise with 10 8 or SB has K K  and trying to buy the pot after the Turn since nobody bet after the flop. A slow play turned fast play . What  was the end result of the hand?
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Author Topic: $2.20 MTT - Second set + 4-flush draw facing turn bet from blinds(Read 783 times)
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2011, 10:00:51 AM »

I believe flatting is the best decision in this spot.  You still have the CO to act too.
 

Let's see what the cutoff does and then see how the river plays out.




Kash
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Author Topic: $2.20 MTT - Second set + 4-flush draw facing turn bet from blinds(Read 783 times)
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2011, 01:11:04 AM »

Raise less pre firstly. No need whatsoever to be 3x ing at this stage of a tournament. I think we have to raise here OTT personally since there's still so many hands we get value from and if SB has flopped it then we still have some pretty good equity in the pot. Generally I think shoving is a little more bluffy since we're folding out a great deal of hands we beat so I think I like raising small here to like 4200 and give villain the chance to spew over the top thinking he has some sort of fold equity (which we know he clearly does not).
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Author Topic: $2.20 MTT - Second set + 4-flush draw facing turn bet from blinds(Read 783 times)
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2011, 09:37:01 PM »

Raise less pre firstly. No need whatsoever to be 3x ing at this stage of a tournament. I think we have to raise here OTT personally since there's still so many hands we get value from and if SB has flopped it then we still have some pretty good equity in the pot. Generally I think shoving is a little more bluffy since we're folding out a great deal of hands we beat so I think I like raising small here to like 4200 and give villain the chance to spew over the top thinking he has some sort of fold equity (which we know he clearly does not).

I like this idea. Given the bet sizing from the SB player and the buy-in I'd say there's a high chance that he's a drooler. Against a drooler with a set, I'm stacking off almost always unless the board is super scary light 4 to a straight/flush. So my standard here would be to raise & get it in. I'd only consider flatting if SB was the type of player who thinks calling = weakness, especially if he has a lot of air in his leading which he will double barrel with OTR because of his assumption that we are weak since we just called.
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Author Topic: $2.20 MTT - Second set + 4-flush draw facing turn bet from blinds(Read 783 times)
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2011, 02:37:02 AM »

Hi

Cbet flop- can't believe no one has mentioned this already but you flop one overcard and a suited flop.... seems a snapcbet to me and no other option

Flat turn... we want him to spew when he bricks, if the flush hits the river then it will be easy enough to get away from or maybe even bluffcatch him if he bets small.

Bye
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