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Topic: $4.40 MTT - 3rd hand in, we 3-bet JJ and get quickly c4BAI and a call ahead  (Read 199 times) More Search
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Author Topic: $4.40 MTT - 3rd hand in, we 3-bet JJ and get quickly c4BAI and a call ahead(Read 199 times)
« on: August 08, 2010, 03:55:24 PM »

Calling is kinda bad fundamentally, but the timing of this is suspicious, and since we have no reads, I'm tempted to call anyways because we could be in good shape to triple up right away.  What to do, what to do...

(FYI, c4BAI = cold 4-bet all-in = dude shoved in front of a raise and a 3-bet)

Just out of curiousity, as opposed to JJ, what do you do here with:

- QQ
- TT
- AK
- AQ

Poker Stars $4.00+$0.40 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t10/t20 Blinds - 9 players - View hand 847835
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

Hero (MP1): t3000       150 BBs
MP2: t2990       149.50 BBs
CO: t2970       148.50 BBs
BTN: t2970       148.50 BBs
SB: t3870       193.50 BBs
BB: t2880       144 BBs
UTG: t2940       147 BBs
UTG+1: t3000       150 BBs
UTG+2: t2380       119 BBs

Pre Flop: (t30) Hero is MP1 with J J
2 folds, UTG+2 raises to t100, Hero raises to t300, 4 folds, BB raises to t2880 all in, UTG+2 calls t2280 all in
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Author Topic: $4.40 MTT - 3rd hand in, we 3-bet JJ and get quickly c4BAI and a call ahead(Read 199 times)
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2010, 06:20:44 PM »

Fold... We are in a super crappy spot and are likely to be dominated or flipping or both.

AQ is a clear fold.
TT is a clear fold.
QQ I probably muck here as well, but thats close.
AK is probably a fold as well this early in a tourney - recently watched a few vids from some real good pro's and they said stacking off early with AK is pretty bad.

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Author Topic: $4.40 MTT - 3rd hand in, we 3-bet JJ and get quickly c4BAI and a call ahead(Read 199 times)
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2010, 06:29:53 PM »

AK is probably a fold as well this early in a tourney - recently watched a few vids from some real good pro's and they said stacking off early with AK is pretty bad.

But did they ever explain why?  Because if there's one format of poker that makes it worth making volatile plays/calls, it's large-field MTT's.
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Author Topic: $4.40 MTT - 3rd hand in, we 3-bet JJ and get quickly c4BAI and a call ahead(Read 199 times)
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2010, 07:14:44 PM »

I believe it was because at best you are flipping/behind most peoples shove ranges and in a majority of cases you are in real bad against AA or KK. They made special point never to call the all-in that way as well, at least if you shove you have some fold equity. The going consensus is its more advisable to find better spots then to coin flip for stacks early.

Shipping AK is pretty standard in cash - but you can top up. Even in cash I might fold AK to an open, raise, c4, call just because we are pretty much never ahead, but with the dead money it might be equitable. With JJ you are pretty much behind there always.
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Author Topic: $4.40 MTT - 3rd hand in, we 3-bet JJ and get quickly c4BAI and a call ahead(Read 199 times)
profilsixandfour
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« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2010, 10:49:44 PM »

I'm folding here and the entire range given as well.   You can argue the advisability of sketchy calls all you want; if they're that bad to stack off with worse than JJ, then you'll have no trouble at all picking them off more safely later.
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Author Topic: $4.40 MTT - 3rd hand in, we 3-bet JJ and get quickly c4BAI and a call ahead(Read 199 times)
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2010, 02:32:45 PM »

You can argue the advisability of sketchy calls all you want; if they're that bad to stack off with worse than JJ, then you'll have no trouble at all picking them off more safely later.

Solid answer, and I'm pretty sure it's still the correct one either way.  Just wanted to see if anyone here tanks a bit and searches deep for a call like I do sometimes. Tongue
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Author Topic: $4.40 MTT - 3rd hand in, we 3-bet JJ and get quickly c4BAI and a call ahead(Read 199 times)
profilsixandfour
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« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2010, 09:34:23 PM »

Just wanted to see if anyone here tanks a bit and searches deep for a call like I do sometimes. Tongue

Sure... we're not thinking about it hard enough if we don't consider it.  But then hopefully we realize there's just better times to do it. 
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Author Topic: $4.40 MTT - 3rd hand in, we 3-bet JJ and get quickly c4BAI and a call ahead(Read 199 times)
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2010, 07:17:00 AM »

I am folding the JJ, 10's, AQ ..but at this level buy-in I am probably getting my QQ and AK in. The ranges are pretty wide at the $4.40 level, villian could be shoving here with 9's, or have AJs, and think he is the shoot lol.
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Author Topic: $4.40 MTT - 3rd hand in, we 3-bet JJ and get quickly c4BAI and a call ahead(Read 199 times)
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2010, 10:26:17 AM »

150bbs, about, easy fold. Throw it away and wait for a spot in which you are probably not crushed. You can always make a bad call, but it's making the good fold, and surviving until later that helps you consolidate your chips and lets you move on with the tourney, where as making the call with JJ can send you out the door. Him having AK, AQ, 1010, AJ, are your best, but with that type of action, you can expect to be crushed.
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