No, but they apparently are if they can't understand not getting in a 3way all in with tens.

You might have missed that BB shoved over the top of the Cut Off and BTN.

And I also am never folding face up.

I think it's a pretty bad fold.  It costs you 3400 into an almost 12K pot.  You have almost enough equity to make the call with ATC, so your TT is plenty strong to make the call given those odds.  Couple that with the opportunity to bust 2 players and put yourself in a good spot regarding chip count.  These guys are getting really low on chips, and I think you're overestimating the BB's range.

The first thing we have to think about is whether BB is shoving a correct range.  I think BTN is shoving fairly wide, say A2+, KJ+, many sc's and all pairs.  This makes a correct BB shoving range of anything better than that, I reckon a conservative estimate of 77+, A9+ for a decent BB shoving range.

We have pot odds of 3400 into 11500 which is 3.3:1 ish (using my head), which means we prob need around 25% equity in the hand to be profitable.

However, i think BB tightens up a bit readless, especially as he is a live player.  Most live players at this level are tighter on new tables.  I think we can prob say his range is more like 99+ and AT+ imo, perhaps tighter if he really doesn't understand shoving ranges and is really bad (but you don't know that yet).

The final thing to think about here is that there might be other spots coming up that are better.  I personally wouldn't be folding face up, but now that you have, you should be throwing your weight around left right and centre.

I have stoved this:


equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    39.132%     38.49%    00.64%       74880002220    1254353036.00   { TT }
Hand 1:    38.613%     37.40%    01.21%       72764171580    2361543842.00   { 99+, ATs+, ATo+ }
Hand 2:    22.255%     21.37%    00.88%       41580246552    1719022514.00   { 22+, A2s+, KTs+, QJs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, 4s, A2o+, KTo+ }

This is a clear call in these circumstances, and online I would call.  In a live game, I might fold for the above reasons, but the pot odds are so favourable you can almost put it in with atc.

Yeah sorry fletch both Button and BB had around the same amount of chips

Since I had no read on BB I have to assume he has a hand, right Sixandfour? Wouldn't everyone assume the same thing?

I may call here.  I don't think we are doing too bad against the ranges (in fact we are probably crushing the range of the button), but this is a huge pot and we have top call 3400 to win a little over 12k.  

If we fold here we have about 15 BBs.  If we call and lose we have about 10 BBs.  Both are pretty bad and both are going to be hard stacks to get to the final table with 5 tables left.  However, calling and winning gives us over 35 BBs and a pretty decent position to make a deep run into the FT.  

Since I've been playing live alot since 4/15, I am learning that in almost every MTT there is a spot where you need to take an risky situation with a high reward to try to go real deep. 

Cubbies owns this thread... damn near ATC snapcalls here. As I told you on AIM goom I would pretty much only fold complete steal opens here that I don't want to go to showdown and screw up my image with. Anything that is a reasonable opening hand here cannot possibly find a fold imo.

havent read past the OP and yes a fold here is not a good play at all imo...even tho u have no read on the BB, you are gettng such great odds for a hand that is in the top 10%....if u lose u still 10bbs and can play shove/fold easily...the equity is just way to juicy to not call witha decent hand....

Right on.  This kinda ties in with another thread we've been discussing tourney situations in:

http://www.sixandfourum.com/tourney-game-strategy/arnold-snyder-poker-tournament-formula-2/

sometimes there's more risk and reward than the odds would dictate.

lol, been there.  spent several hours on one once to get booted by my ISP and lost it all.