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 Raise sizes as Blinds go up/Antes kick in.



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Topic: Raise sizes as Blinds go up/Antes kick in.  (Read 382 times) More Search
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Author Topic: Raise sizes as Blinds go up/Antes kick in.(Read 382 times)
profilFletch_smf
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« on: January 05, 2011, 10:28:34 PM »

The feedback from my FT hands indicates that very few of you like the open min raise even when Blinds are 1400. I start at 4x when the BB is 20 moving up through 3x, 2.5x, 2.2x and ending on 2x when the blinds are 1000 and above.

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Author Topic: Raise sizes as Blinds go up/Antes kick in.(Read 382 times)
profilsixandfour
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« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2011, 10:46:40 PM »

I tend to run 3x and decrease to 2.5 in later stages, based solely on table feel.  If the tables are solid, I'll lean toward 2.5 all day, and at especially loose ones I'll go 4 or occasionally more to pound the fish.  The problem with minraises is that it gives a BB odds to call you ATC, so you can't narrow a range.  Add to that a sweeter deal for SB and the potential at a loose table of a ton of people to the flop, and it loses its value in that regard.  If you happen to want a multiway pot or are throwing a curve, that's fine; and on occasion I have no issue with that.  But as a general rule, I'd recommend throwing it out for purposes of thinning field or ranges.
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Author Topic: Raise sizes as Blinds go up/Antes kick in.(Read 382 times)
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2011, 11:16:08 PM »

I thought your raise was fine at that blind level, (I believe blinds were 1200) I will say though that in a $1 buy in and maybe even $3 buy ins, I may tend to make it a little more, but I don't think it is necessary to go past 2.5x when you are that deep. Also, in a 90 man, I would attempt to steal less pots, as you don't need to go as far as you do in a large field mtt, if that makes sense. obviously, if it is a tight table, steal away, but I rarely find this in 90 mans, and it is best to conserve your chips imo.
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Author Topic: Raise sizes as Blinds go up/Antes kick in.(Read 382 times)
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2011, 07:27:13 AM »

I normally start at 3x and then adjust.  If with 3x nobody ever folds, then you have to adjust up.  If people are sucessfully stealing with 2x, then you can bet 2x. 
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Author Topic: Raise sizes as Blinds go up/Antes kick in.(Read 382 times)
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2011, 12:03:18 PM »

Personally I think it is better to tighten up your opening range, rather then "adjust up". You don't want to be opening to 4800 at
1200 blind levels, you want to get calls with your good hands. The key is to keep your raises the same at each level, as not to give off reads, you want to be raising the same whether you have AA, 22, or 56s.

Also, bvb, I think it is best to 3x unless you have aces or kings.
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Author Topic: Raise sizes as Blinds go up/Antes kick in.(Read 382 times)
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2011, 03:14:43 PM »

Minraises should be reserved for the final table or shortly before then (ie, final 2 tables) as less and less BB's are in play.  Otherwise, anything less than 2.5x or maybe 2.25x is still pretty inviting and I generally don't feel like minraising pre accomplishes much of the same that raising standard amounts would.  As the tourney gets deeper, I generally prefer a 3-3.5x EP, 3x MP, 2.5x LP format.
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Author Topic: Raise sizes as Blinds go up/Antes kick in.(Read 382 times)
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2011, 03:29:30 PM »

I generally start at 3 BBs and adjust as the tournament moves on.  Generally, I play tight in the first round or two and loosen up as the tournament moves on.  When I ajm playing tight, I want to build a slightly bigger pot with my hands as I'm generally only raising for value in the early stage.  As we move on to the middle stage and I expand my opening ranges, I lower my raise to about 2.5 BBs, this way you can open the pot and if you have to fold, you lost fewer chips.

The main reason for the lower opening raise is that you can take more chances and risk fewer chips.  Imagine starting the hand with 30 BBs and open raise to 3 BBs and get called by the button.  On the flop you make a c-bet of 4 BBs and get raised or called or whatever to force you to give up on the hand.  If this happens two times in a row, now you have lost 14 BBs and your stack is almost half. 

If you raise to 2.5 BBs, now your c-bet is aobut 3 BBs and if you lose 2 hands in a row, you are now down about 11 BBs and only lost a little over a 1/3 of your stck instead of 1/2.

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Author Topic: Raise sizes as Blinds go up/Antes kick in.(Read 382 times)
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« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2011, 10:42:22 PM »

In S&G's (and I really only play one-table ones), I often find myself min-raising in (near-)bubble situations when I'm not in shove/fold mode myself.  Typically, something like this:

Blinds: 100/200

Me (button): 3600
SB: 4000
BB: 1000

Here, there are a small number of hands where I'm willing to stack off vs the small blind, but lots of hands I will be happy to try to eliminate the BB with.  If my min-raise gets rid of the small blind, I'm all-in first chance I get - stop and go's don't fool/scare me one bit - and I just don't think there are very many hands BB can have where he can really profit by flatting pre-flop and hoping to catch something as opposed to simply shoving pre-flop himself.
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Author Topic: Raise sizes as Blinds go up/Antes kick in.(Read 382 times)
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2011, 05:09:48 AM »

It's important to consider what you're looking to achieve by raising, then consider how sizing your raise differently will best accomplish this.

At 10/20 blinds and with 3k stacks, it's unlikely that anyone who flats a 60 (3xBB) open would do anything other than flat if you made it 40 or 50 instead. However once you increase your open to 80 (4xBB), I'm sure this will cause a good % of opponents to tighten their calling range. If you're opening with a 150BB stack then you ought not to be interested in stealing blinds, so it's clear that 3xBB will extract more immediate value than 4xBB but it's also worth noting that if you're particularly active and aggressive you can build smaller pots more frequently by opening for 2 or 2.5 x BB. I've played lots of lowstakes MTTs with this style, running around 25/20 in the early stages and opening with a minraise because I want to play lots of postflop poker against inferior opponents.

In mid-late game, ie once antes kick in and as effective stacks reduce, it's generally accepted that opening for more than 2.5xBB as standard is a leak. Most regs know this, though I doubt many of them actually understand WHY and this causes them to become lazy and to miss opportunities for optimal bet sizing. The basic idea is that by raising smaller, you still get the same % of folds, calls and 3bets but you risk fewer chips. As I say, most regs understand this but fail to consider the further point that the raise sizing also affects the pot size and a small deviation can lead to awkward postflop situations with low relative stacks. By thinking ahead and considering the stacks of players yet to act, and what their likely flatting ranges, 3bet ranges AND SIZING will be, you can actually manipulate the pot size in advance to suit the options you want to retain for yourself. I realise I'm beginning to talk gibberish so I'll try an example:

Blinds: 1k/2k (250 ante)
Hero (CO) 60k
BTN: 12k
SB: 16k
BB: 80k

Hero has A8os.

Here, irrespective of my initial open size, I'm never folding to a shove from button or SB. The most obvious play, and the play most multi-tabling zombie regfish would make, is to open for around 4500 with the intention of folding to a 3bet from BB and snapping a shove from either of the shorties. However, the flaw in the plan comes when one of the shorties shoves and the BB flats. Assuming BB is a random, we now need to consider whether he's just flatting a mediocre hand for lolpotodds because he's retarded, or if he's trapping us into an iso shove with a premium hand. We can reduce the risk of this spot occuring by increasing our initial open to between 5500-6k, as this size is unusually large and gives the impression of defining our intention to get stacks in. Of course, we're actually still folding if BB comes over the top but he's a little less likely to realise that so we reduce the likelihood of him 3betting light and also make flatting less attractive. By simply opening for 1k more chips than standard we've almost forced him to turn his cards face up.

« Last Edit: April 18, 2011, 05:18:40 AM by LostOstrich » Logged

Author Topic: Raise sizes as Blinds go up/Antes kick in.(Read 382 times)
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« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2011, 04:53:20 PM »

^^ Nice post.
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