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Author Topic: TT - the New Nuts(Read 235 times)
profilFletch_smf
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« on: November 21, 2011, 10:42:41 PM »

At todays game BOYNAMEDSUE suggested we have a strategy thread for this game game, and that seemed like a good idea. Some of my thoughts:

A crappy hand is still a crappy hand. I'll open with one in late position because there's a good chance everyone else is forced to fold, but I'm not calling an open with 52o. In that respect it kind of emphasises position and the ability to steal.

Hand Converter not working for me right now, so posting unconverted hands for the moment.

PokerStars Home Game #70934506333: {The Baker Brothel}
Tournament #469290042, 100+9 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (20/40) - 2011/11/21 21:10:54 ET
Table '469290042 1' 9-max
Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: gjecat (1723 in chips)
Seat 2: IM NOT A FAN (1365 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 3: chato1522 (1215 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 4: ribbybruno (1365 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 6: JBaker904 (1035 in chips)
Seat 7: wachinpntdry (1270 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 8: iHoward (3611 in chips)
Seat 9: Fletch_smf (1916 in chips)
iHoward: posts small blind 20
Fletch_smf: posts big blind 40
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Fletch_smf [8s 3d]
gjecat: folds
IM NOT A FAN: folds
chato1522: folds
ribbybruno: folds
JBaker904: raises 40 to 80
wachinpntdry: folds
iHoward: folds
Fletch_smf: folds
Uncalled bet (40) returned to JBaker904
JBaker904 collected 100 from pot
JBaker904: shows [4h Td] (high card Ten)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 100 | Rake 0
Seat 1: gjecat folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: IM NOT A FAN folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: chato1522 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: ribbybruno folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: JBaker904 collected (100)
Seat 7: wachinpntdry (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: iHoward (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: Fletch_smf (big blind) folded before Flop

With a lot of big cards and/or a pair on the board, the chances of split pots are greatly increased. Maybe this has an effect on my first point, and I'd like to hear from others about this.

PokerStars Home Game #70935880160: {The Baker Brothel}
Tournament #469290042, 100+9 Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (50/100) - 2011/11/21 22:01:40 ET
Table '469290042 1' 9-max
Seat #4 is the button
Seat 4: ribbybruno (860 in chips)
Seat 8: iHoward (5102 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 9: Fletch_smf (7538 in chips) is sitting out
ribbybruno: posts the ante 10
iHoward: posts the ante 10
Fletch_smf: posts the ante 10
iHoward: posts small blind 50
Fletch_smf: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Fletch_smf [6s 8d]
ribbybruno: raises 200 to 300
Fletch_smf said, "And I'm back"
iHoward: raises 730 to 1030
Fletch_smf said, "Wowsers"
Fletch_smf: folds
ribbybruno: calls 550 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (180) returned to iHoward
*** FLOP *** [Ts 5d 6d]
*** TURN *** [Ts 5d 6d] [Qs]
*** RIVER *** [Ts 5d 6d Qs] [5h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
iHoward: shows [Th 2h] (two pair, Tens and Fives)
ribbybruno: shows [4s Tc] (two pair, Tens and Fives)
iHoward collected 915 from pot
ribbybruno collected 915 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1830 | Rake 0
Board [Ts 5d 6d Qs 5h]
Seat 4: ribbybruno (button) showed [4s Tc] and won (915) with two pair, Tens and Fives
Seat 8: iHoward (small blind) showed [Th 2h] and won (915) with two pair, Tens and Fives
Seat 9: Fletch_smf (big blind) folded before Flop

The fact that all hands are being shown adds an interesting dynamic. You never have to pay for information. I think this is a good teaching tool as well, because generally you never should pay for information. All bluffs are shown and people can see exactly how you play when you flop the nuts or are chasing your draw.

PokerStars Home Game #70935255181: {The Baker Brothel} Tournament #469290042, 100+9 Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (30/60) - 2011/11/21 21:37:04 ET
Table '469290042 1' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 2: IM NOT A FAN (605 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 3: chato1522 (1511 in chips)
Seat 4: ribbybruno (1300 in chips)
Seat 7: wachinpntdry (665 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 8: iHoward (4655 in chips)
Seat 9: Fletch_smf (4764 in chips)
IM NOT A FAN: posts the ante 5
chato1522: posts the ante 5
ribbybruno: posts the ante 5
wachinpntdry: posts the ante 5
iHoward: posts the ante 5
Fletch_smf: posts the ante 5
ribbybruno: posts small blind 30
wachinpntdry: posts big blind 60
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Fletch_smf [5h Th]
iHoward: raises 60 to 120
Fletch_smf: calls 120
IM NOT A FAN: folds
chato1522 said, "ok guys this it  my buddy 5 mins away    one more hand and im all in and out"
chato1522: folds
ribbybruno: folds
wachinpntdry: folds
*** FLOP *** [Js Tc 5s]
ribbybruno said, "where ya going?"
iHoward: bets 216
Fletch_smf: raises 216 to 432
iHoward: raises 216 to 648
Fletch_smf: raises 351 to 999
chato1522 said, "to score a huge amount for a buddy"
chato1522 said, "lol"
iHoward: raises 471 to 1470
ribbybruno said, "lol"
Fletch_smf: raises 752 to 2222
ribbybruno said, "puff puff pass"
chato1522 said, "gotta make a quick buck  need smokes"
chato1522 said, "lol"
ribbybruno said, "be careful sir"
chato1522 said, "was supposed to do it an hour ago  but he wasnt off work yet"
chato1522 said, "oh i will for sure"
iHoward: folds
Uncalled bet (752) returned to Fletch_smf
Fletch_smf collected 3300 from pot
Fletch_smf: shows [5h Th] (two pair, Tens and Fives)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3300 | Rake 0
Board [Js Tc 5s]
Seat 2: IM NOT A FAN folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: chato1522 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: ribbybruno (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: wachinpntdry (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: iHoward folded on the Flop
Seat 9: Fletch_smf collected (3300)

PokerStars Home Game #70934415377: {The Baker Brothel}
Tournament #469290042, 100+9 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (15/30) - 2011/11/21 21:07:53 ET
Table '469290042 1' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: gjecat (1678 in chips)
Seat 2: IM NOT A FAN (1410 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 3: chato1522 (1260 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 4: ribbybruno (1410 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 6: JBaker904 (1410 in chips)
Seat 7: wachinpntdry (1320 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 8: iHoward (3135 in chips)
Seat 9: Fletch_smf (1877 in chips)
gjecat: posts small blind 15
IM NOT A FAN: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Fletch_smf [6d 7s]
chato1522: folds
ribbybruno: folds
JBaker904: raises 60 to 90
wachinpntdry: folds
iHoward: folds
Fletch_smf: calls 90
gjecat: folds
IM NOT A FAN: folds
*** FLOP *** [5d 9h 8d]
JBaker904: bets 90
Fletch_smf: calls 90
*** TURN *** [5d 9h 8d] [Qd]
JBaker904: checks
Fletch_smf: bets 288
JBaker904: folds
Uncalled bet (288) returned to Fletch_smf
Fletch_smf collected 405 from pot
Fletch_smf: shows [6d 7s] (a straight, Five to Nine)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 405 | Rake 0
Board [5d 9h 8d Qd]
Seat 1: gjecat (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: IM NOT A FAN (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: chato1522 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: ribbybruno folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: JBaker904 folded on the Turn
Seat 7: wachinpntdry folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: iHoward folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Fletch_smf (button) collected (405)

PokerStars Home Game #70935184149: {The Baker Brothel}
Tournament #469290042, 100+9 Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (30/60) - 2011/11/21 21:34:29 ET
Table '469290042 1' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 2: IM NOT A FAN (725 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 3: chato1522 (2828 in chips)
Seat 4: ribbybruno (1300 in chips)
Seat 7: wachinpntdry (785 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 8: iHoward (4415 in chips)
Seat 9: Fletch_smf (3447 in chips)
IM NOT A FAN: posts the ante 5
chato1522: posts the ante 5
ribbybruno: posts the ante 5
wachinpntdry: posts the ante 5
iHoward: posts the ante 5
Fletch_smf: posts the ante 5
ribbybruno: posts small blind 30
wachinpntdry: posts big blind 60
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Fletch_smf [Ts 4s]
iHoward: folds
Fletch_smf: raises 60 to 120
IM NOT A FAN: folds
ribbybruno said, "you needed a silver tooth then"
chato1522: raises 180 to 300
ribbybruno: folds
wachinpntdry: folds
chato1522 said, "or 3 gold ones"
Fletch_smf: calls 180
*** FLOP *** [Ad 3s 7c]
Fletch_smf: checks
chato1522: checks
*** TURN *** [Ad 3s 7c] [5s]
Fletch_smf: checks
chato1522: bets 240
Fletch_smf: calls 240
*** RIVER *** [Ad 3s 7c 5s] [2s]
Fletch_smf: bets 777
chato1522: calls 777
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Fletch_smf: shows [Ts 4s] (a flush, Ten high)
chato1522: shows [9h 2d] (a pair of Deuces)
Fletch_smf collected 2754 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2754 | Rake 0
Board [Ad 3s 7c 5s 2s]
Seat 2: IM NOT A FAN folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: chato1522 (button) showed [9h 2d] and lost with a pair of Deuces
Seat 4: ribbybruno (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: wachinpntdry (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: iHoward folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Fletch_smf showed [Ts 4s] and won (2754) with a flush, Ten high

A question ... do you think your stats are pretty much the same as during a normal game? Are you playing a bit tighter or has your opening range just moved down the scale from the top hands? Do you think you're actually playing looser because you think your opponent is being forced to fold so your 72 might be good?
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Author Topic: TT - the New Nuts(Read 235 times)
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2012, 08:15:39 AM »

Quote
A crappy hand is still a crappy hand.
i agree somewhat [52o LOL]... but the dynamics change for TT.

88,99, and TT become much stronger than QQ,KK, AA in reg. games.

You actually will toss 52% of your hands as non-qualifiers.

Limping [43sooted   pref. to 52o, ldo] becomes more common.
That 40% factor comes into play in later rounds, when bigger stacks are
more difficult to dislodge from leadership positions
. You would tend to
take your desperation shotz earlier.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 09:45:19 PM by spike420211 » Logged
Author Topic: TT - the New Nuts(Read 235 times)
profilFletch_smf
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« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2012, 04:00:16 PM »


88,99, and TT become much stronger than QQ,KK, AA in reg. games.

Interesting. Why do you think this is?

And what are your thoughts on T9 compared to AK?
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Author Topic: TT - the New Nuts(Read 235 times)
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2012, 04:46:49 PM »

I agree with the statement that TT, 99 and 88 are strong hands than QQ, KK or AA (their regular game equivalents), for three reasons:

1. It's harder to hit hard and crack big pairs. With 12 cards in the deck out of play, much of the time players will only have 2 cards (on average) on the flop available to help their hands, and by the river only 3 or 4 cards, instead of 5. Yes, sometimes high cards help hands (TQJ hits 89 very hard), but on average, less available board cards leads to fewer big hands. With that said, low, raggedy boards should be scarier for big pairs, because it's more likely a player has big one-pair hands beat.

2. Because hands with JQK or A are dead, fewer people see each flop. Few people seeing flops is good for big pairs.

3. People overplay hands like 87, 98, 97, 96, T5, T4 pre-flop more so than they overplay their regular game equivalents.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 04:48:24 PM by BOYNAMEDSUE » Logged

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Author Topic: TT - the New Nuts(Read 235 times)
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2012, 09:51:59 PM »

Quote
And what are your thoughts on T9 compared to AK?
slightly stronger, as 78J/8JQ/JQK boards are pretty much full on locks if not 2-flushes.

Quote
People overplay hands like 87, 98, 97, 96, T5, T4 pre-flop more so than they overplay their regular game equivalents.
you wanna use the 2xBB "limp" frequently. Go for fit-or-fold.
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Author Topic: TT - the New Nuts(Read 235 times)
profilsixandfour
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« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2012, 11:09:14 PM »

Quote
And what are your thoughts on T9 compared to AK?
slightly stronger, as 78J/8JQ/JQK boards are pretty much full on locks if not 2-flushes.

What BNS said about the dead cards in the OP situ also helps.  12 cards disqualifying hands make for fewer opponents, and therefore t9 will hold up unpaired a larger percentage of the time.
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Author Topic: TT - the New Nuts(Read 235 times)
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« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2012, 09:26:44 PM »

Quote
And what are your thoughts on T9 compared to AK?
slightly stronger, as 78J/8JQ/JQK boards are pretty much full on locks if not 2-flushes.

Yes, the greater number of straight possibilites make it a better hand. Good point.
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